Land and water defender and health activist Judy Da Silva joins host Sheldomar Elliott to discuss the wins she has seen her community achieve in protecting their home of Asubpeeschoseewagong First Nation territory (also known as Grassy Narrows First Nation) and the many threats they continue to face.
Judy and the people of Grassy Narrows were thrust into a lifetime of advocacy when Dryden Chemicals Ltd. dumped waste into the surrounding English-Wabigoon river system, creating a decades-old mercury crisis. Herself a survivor of mercury poisoning, Judy describes how hard the community has had to fight for government accountability and support, all the while facing continued logging and mining infringements on their land.
A respected elder, the soft-spoken but lionhearted Judy joined the conversation from a small wooden cabin on the frontlines of the Highway 671 blockade, the longest in Ontario’s history. She describes how preventing 20 years worth of industrial encroachment has restored some of the local ecosystem, offering a more peaceful place for people and animals alike.
It’s both a heartening reminder of the power of collective resistance and a call to action for every one of us listening to keep up the fight for land back, in Grassy Narrows and beyond.
Transcript:
Judy 00:00:00 Me having my children. It made it more powerful for me to be able to pursue these things for the community. Like, it wasn’t just about my children. It was like for the people in grassy, like the community members. And and then it was just like we all helped each other. You know, it’s like, once you start talking and then you, you start energizing each other and you help each other cause a fight like this. It doesn’t take one person. It takes a whole community.
Renee 00:00:34 You’re listening to Dignity and Joy, a podcast from Foodshare. Join us as we confront the systems of oppression that impact who has access to food and the land it’s grown on, and who doesn’t. To achieve something better will take hard work from all of us, and can only be done if we listen closely to the people who are already leading change. Our host Sheldomar Elliott delves into the connections between food and justice with folks who have their fingers on the pulse and their hands in the soil.
Renee 00:01:06 Together, they dream in colour and consider what it would take to build a just and hopeful world — one where everyone can feed themselves, their loved ones, and their community with dignity and with joy.
Sheldomar 00:01:21 Hi, I’m Sheldomar Elliott, and welcome to this episode of Dignity and Joy, a podcast from Foodshare. Today our guest is Judy Da Silva. Judy is a Grassy Narrows community member and a mother to five children who she says help her have the positive energy to continue to look for justice and for the solution to the mercury poisoning of the river system in Grassy Narrows and Mother Earth. In recognition of her lifelong work to advocate for environmental protection using peaceful, nonviolent direct actions, Judy has been awarded the Michael Sattler Peace Prize, the Human Rights Watch Award, the Art Manual Environmental Award and an honorary doctorate from Wilfrid Laurier University. Judy personally suffers from the effects of mercury poisoning, and she currently works in the band office of her community as Environmental Health Coordinator. Welcome, Judy, and thanks so much for joining us today.
Judy 00:02:15 Hi. Thank you for inviting me.
Sheldomar 00:02:18 Of course. Well, before we get into our discussion today, I want to start by acknowledging that I’m here in Toronto, sacred land in the traditional territories of the Wendat, the Anishinaabe and the Mississaugas of the credit, and that this territory is covered by the district one spoon Wampum belt covenants. And at Foodshare, we think it’s important to start any conversation on this land by recognizing the many nations of indigenous peoples who presently live on this land. Those who have spent time here, and the ancestors who have hunted and gathered on this land. I also want to acknowledge the many people of African descent were not settlers whose ancestors were forcibly displaced as part of the transatlantic slave trade brought against their will, and made to work on these lands at Foodshare. We believe that advancing indigenous sovereignty is deeply and inextricably linked to black liberation, and we remain committed to advancing both. Now, Judy, typically on the podcast, I like to start off with some icebreakers to kind of get the conversation started.
Sheldomar 00:03:18 Are you up for joining me on answering some of these?
Judy 00:03:22 Yes, sure.
Sheldomar 00:03:23 Okay, great. First question I got here for you is what is your favorite sweet treat or dessert?
Judy 00:03:31 I like apple pie and ice cream.
Sheldomar 00:03:34 Ooh, that’s a good call. I have to ask, what kind of ice cream are we going to go with? With the apple pie?
Judy 00:03:42 Maple. Walnut.
Sheldomar 00:03:44 Oh. Good call. Yeah, I need that. Next one I have here is what movie, TV show or book could you enjoy over and over again?
Judy 00:03:56 I really like Mary Poppins, and I can watch that over and over again because of the music.
Sheldomar 00:04:03 It is really memorable. Now that you mention it. yeah, even. Yeah. I’m thinking about some songs too. I’m not going to sing, but. Yeah, that’s that’s a good one. last one I got for you, Judy, is. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?
Judy 00:04:19 Oh, I was faced with racism as a 14 year old in Kenora, and I went home crying.
Judy 00:04:29 And the biggest advice or best advice I ever got back then was, “the only person you can change is yourself.” And as a 14 year old, I didn’t understand that until as I got older, then I realized that the people that I had faced racism with and because I was telling them, I’m not what you say my people are? And I was only 14 and I was alone in a bus stop. Was like 11 p.m. at night and. And for a little 14 year old to say that to these grown white men, it was very strong, I think. But then I cried when I got home to my dad, and I told him what they had said about my people, and he said, the only people you can change is yourself. And now I understand it. It’s like, I, I’m the best person I can be to humanity as a as a human being. And the only way I can change the world is by being the best person I can be.
Sheldomar 00:05:35 I love that. Thank you for sharing that.
Sheldomar 00:05:36 That is something that I resonate really deeply with. I think about this often. I’m still coming to terms with what that really means. But I really appreciate you. You know expanding on like what how does that show up and how you’ve come to appreciate this wisdom. Yeah. Well, thanks for answering those with me, Judy.
Judy 00:05:57 can I share one more thing?
Sheldomar 00:05:59 Of course. Yeah. Anything. Anything you got?
Judy 00:06:02 Okay. I used to have to go on a Greyhound bus to Toronto to go to high school. And so it was like two days of being in a bus. So I used to read a lot. And the thing that changed my outlook was Five Smooth Stones was a book I read. And some people, you know should Google that. But it was a really powerful book for me. It was called Five Smooth Stones.
Sheldomar 00:06:32 Interesting. I’m writing this down now. Do you mind sharing a bit about what it was about?
Judy 00:06:36 It was about, black people living in, in a society that was, like, really racist towards our people.
Judy 00:06:46 And then The bottom line teaching was if you if you look for racism, racism will find you. That’s the bottom bottom line. So I’ve lived my life to to to not live with racism. And I like it’s really hard for me to run into it. And I see my sister who who has not come to terms with that and and, she faces a lot of racism and stores and restaurants and all that. But it’s like if you look for it, you’ll find it. But if you live above it and live for humanity, then you’ll experience life in a different way. It’s almost like a spiritual journey we have on this earth as people. And I think as a teenager reading that book, like, really helped me deal with the racism that I face as a Anishinaabe person on indigenous lands. Yeah.
Sheldomar 00:07:47 Yeah. Oh, that’s that’s beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. I can relate to that too. I think sometimes it’s really easy to get caught up in the you know. Yeah.
Sheldomar 00:07:55 Racism not caught up in racism but thinking about issues in this way rather than the grand scheme of things. And like you phrase it as like thinking about humanity more broadly and the roles that we play. I would love to get into a conversation about a spiritual journey, but I don’t think that’s what I’ve thought about today. Maybe next time, though. I would love to do that. Yeah. but, you know, I. Yeah, thinking about, your work and your advocacy and some of the things that came up. as I was sharing your bio, I recognize that there’s a lot of folks who might be listening today that might be already familiar, but I kind of want to briefly explain what has happened in Grassy Narrows and what will be kind of focusing our conversation on it today. So what I understand Grassy Narrows is a community in northwestern Ontario, and in the 1960s and 70s the Dryden Paper Mill upstream from Grassy Narrows, dumped 9000kg of mercury into the river. The resulting pollution contaminated the fish and the poison.
Sheldomar 00:09:02 The Grassy Narrows people, who would drink the water and relied on fish as a staple for their diets. And the mill says that they stopped using mercury in processing in 1975, when mercury levels in the river have remained dangerously high, and fish near Grassy Narrows are considered the most mercury contaminated in the province, and the effects of the mercury dumped have damaged the Grassy Narrows peoples traditional way of life and continue to have deep impacts on the community’s health and wellbeing today. So before I ask you anything, is there anything that you feel I may have left out or you’d want to add to that that piece there?
Judy 00:09:39 No, I think it’s a good backgrounder for people that are listening so don’t understand. You know where where we are, what we face and what we’re dealing with every day.
Sheldomar 00:09:51 Right? Well, you know, thinking about how huge of a crisis is this has been and how profoundly terrible and affect it’s had on you folks in Grassy. I think it’s important, if I ask you, where do you come into all of this, Judy, and how has this impacted you and your loved ones? And I guess thinking about your work in the activism.
Sheldomar 00:10:13 Was there a particular moment in your life that led you to getting involved?
Judy 00:10:21 Yeah, it was like in the early 1990s, there was a threat of nuclear waste being buried in our backyard. And I remember starting that, that fight to keep the nuclear waste out of our area. And and we were successful installing it for 20 years. And we send an elder, the late Mary Nelson, to Ottawa. And Winona LaDuke, who’s a well-known environmental activist, paid for her plane fare. So those like in the early, early days and then, when when we’re getting successful with these kind of initiatives, my brother took me aside and he said, you know where to fight this. He said, it’s in a logging because the logging is the one that’s destroying our way of life right now. And so that’s kind of the mechanism that started everything was my brother taking me aside and telling me that. And that’s where it all started. And with my brother saying that. And so we started that anti logging campaign.
Judy 00:11:32 And then, you know, as the years went by, we did like youth empowerment workshops, we did the elders gatherings. It’s almost like gathering knowledge from the ground up of how the logging industry has impacted the people. And it was like small scale. And then, you know, like just within the community trying to empower the people and then eventually, you know, going to like we I remember just going to Montreal with some hunters and trappers, but we we stopped in Toronto, we stopped in Ottawa and opened. Mercury was the grand chieftain for some of the First Nations. And he stood with us and we we did a protest in front of Parliament Hill. And then we went to Montreal and delivered a letter to Abitibi Paper, which was in Kenora. So it was like in the early years that was like the the beginning of of us opposing the, the logging industry. And I remember one of the elders saying, it’s no use. We’ve already lost the fight. Many years ago. So that’s kind of the energy that was in the community was like the mercury poisoning happened.
Judy 00:12:52 That’s it. You know, we lost our hunting and trapping areas. So it’s like some of the older generation were like, you know, give up already. There’s no use in opposing this. You know, like that. That was the energy that I felt. And at that time, I was a young person. Like I was like 30 years old and and it it was like, no, I’m not going to give up. You know, that’s just the feeling I had. Yeah. And now here we are today.
Sheldomar 00:13:27 Oh, that’s so powerful. I, I appreciate you. Even in the face of adversity and hearing these messages of, you know, just give up and sort of, just let it go. That still didn’t deter you and you continued pushing through. I imagine that there are folks that also didn’t give up. Right?
Judy 00:13:46 Yeah. I guess it’d be, like, really inspiring the people, the community and, and and especially the young people and seeing, hey, you know, this is wrong.
Judy 00:13:58 You know, all these logs coming out of our, our territory. This is wrong. You know, it’s been here all our lives, these logs coming out of our forest. And it became like a normal, a normal thing to drive behind a big logging truck. And sometimes the logs would spill on the side of the road. And so it was just like a part of life, you know. And then when we start opposing it, people are starting to say, hey, yeah, they shouldn’t be cutting the forest. Look at the medicines are going away. The animals are going away. So it’s not just me alone. It was just like the people, like, kind of being shaken up and saying, yeah, we could do something about it. We could stop this. So it wasn’t me alone. It was just like, like an energy of the people, like saying, no, we don’t want this no more.
Sheldomar 00:14:52 Right. Yeah. And you mentioned that, yeah. I think opposing it sort of what I’m hearing is like it brought visibility to the devastation and what was really happening with these logging companies were doing.
Sheldomar 00:15:08 And you mentioned the loss of medicine and the animals. And it makes me think about the significance of water also. Right. Yeah. a food perspective. And like this is sort of like my, my farmer hat that I’m wearing right now. But yeah you need water for life right. Like water is life. Yeah. Whether it’s growing food or. Yeah. Irrigation in different ways or ensuring, you know, this quality in the water that we’re using. so significance and I guess I’m curious to you and you sort of allude to this with the medicine and the animals, but what does that mean? What does water mean to you in your community other than the obvious, right. That water is is necessary for life? and you can maybe share what does that mean for your culture?
Judy 00:15:53 I guess my brother is my biggest inspiration in terms of water, because one thing the elders said when we had the elders gathering was the the river system was our highway. there was no roads that were coming towards our area.
Judy 00:16:09 So the river system was a way to go visit your your relatives because they were living, like all over the land. And, and then I remember my brother saying one time that, that, it became like he took some people out on the water. It was around November. It was like before it was getting really cold. And he said that his motor broke. So it was nighttime. It was getting nighttime. And he said that. And there he looked at the trees and he recognized the tree line, and he remembered where they were. So he knew if he pushed a little bit further, like he was using a paddle, that they could find a landing in the dark. And mind you, you got to be aware that the water line, the English tropical nervous system, it has sandbars, it has reefs, it has rocks. And so you have to know how to navigate through that river system. Like it’s not all friendly, beautiful water. It’s also very deadly, especially like in November when he was like when his motor and when his motor broken.
Judy 00:17:20 He said he found the pathway and they got off on the landing. It was pitch dark, but he remembered the tree line. So these are gifts. You know that my people have in connection to the land and the water. Is that like even the tree line to us? You know, it looks like just a bunch of trees. But to him, it was like a map, a map of the the land. And he knew where they were. So that’s what guided me. So they eventually found the road and they walked. He said it took him a couple hours to make it to the reserve, and he stood there freezing. But he so his knowledge, his natural knowledge and connection to the land is what? What saved them?
Sheldomar 00:18:03 Right.
Judy 00:18:04 Yeah.
Sheldomar 00:18:05 I think you emphasized something that was so important in like, land. Like, yes, it’s water, but also, yeah, the trees. And being able to like, a natural map sort of said, yeah. And yeah, I’m noticing also this is, you’ve brought up your brother, once already in this conversation.
Sheldomar 00:18:22 And again, your brother seems, Yeah, very wise, but also very impactful in your life.
Judy 00:18:28 Yeah, he’s he’s very knowledgeable and wise. He’s very wise. Yeah.
Sheldomar 00:18:36 Yeah. Sounds like it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he comes up again. And I welcome that. By all means. I’m curious. what was your relationship like to water before all of this has happened? You know, and this is coming from a place from understanding that the advocacy and the activism the Grassy Narrows has been a part of now, you know, you folks are pushed into this role, right? It wasn’t something that you really asked for, but, this leadership and movement around water has been so crucial, like you said, to ensuring that the the land and everything is cared for and that the medicines and the animals are cared for. but I guess thinking back like. Yeah. How did you relate to water or with water. maybe in your younger years.
Judy 00:19:19 Well, like as a young person, my, my Late dad, Robert Cusick, was a fisherman and a hunter and a trapper.
Judy 00:19:29 And so he lived with that my whole life. And, you know, as a child and, him going out on the water and then us, you know, tagging along as they pulled up the nets from the water and then processing them and putting them in ice and taking them to town and coming back with a big roll of money, you know, to to feed us or, you know, like to we didn’t have much costs, but he was the only one that had a truck at that time. And so and, he was able to drive on the old logging road and, you know, we had privileges as a child because he he was on one of the truck, and we’re the only one with a TV, too, because he he bought a generator and he, he’d watch hockey on the, in my home, and a whole bunch of guys would come and talk with us. And so it was just like, being connected to the water. It seemed like it had it gained those privileges, I guess with the commercial fishing, you know, that he he would sell the fish to to Kenora.
Judy 00:20:34 And then it allowed the other community members to like they’re also fishermen and maybe use a transporter, you know, to take the fish to sell for them, too. So my connection to water has always been like close. And being on boats was really like a part of us, always, every single day. And I guess I wanted to say like, when you said it was kind of put in our laps like this, this fight to protect the water because of the fish. Actually, like, before I came, I was like living in Toronto. And then I lived in Winnipeg and but I remember meeting activists in Winnipeg and, people that Protected water. Like Milton Barnard, the tooth was one of them. And he he was trying to protect the Old Man River in Alberta. So it’s almost like I was getting training before I came back home to Grassy in 1995, because I had gone to I had gone to school, you know, like in Toronto. And then I worked in Winnipeg, and then I eventually made my way home back to grassy in 1995.
Judy 00:21:44 So it was just like meeting these activists in Winnipeg, like the Haida Gwaii from BC came through Winnipeg, and we went and supported them and was to protect their forest. So it’s like I was getting all this mentorship from these, these people that were actively protecting their land and water. And then I went home with that under my belt. You know, like knowing these, these mentorships from these strong activists from out West Quest. And, so I brought that home and I shared that, and and then we started that, that fight to protect the forest. So protecting water was like, I was in training with, with, these people that I was meeting in Winnipeg.
Sheldomar 00:22:35 Right. Wow. That’s so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. I had no idea. and I think that speaks to something of, like, you know, meeting people along the way that you don’t know what you’ll learn. and they might teach you stuff, and, you know, you’re not really expecting to be putting what you’re learning to the, the test, you know, lack of words or per se.
Sheldomar 00:23:00 but that’s that’s yeah, that’s something, you know, for you to return. Okay. Now I gotta put this all to use. and I’m assuming you you weren’t really expecting to do that. Like, were you aware of what was happening back home before you had arrived.
Judy 00:23:18 In a way, I was. But not really, because I was like a young mom just having babies, and and, I, I wanted, like, I wanted a good place for my, my, my children. So my thought to come home was part of that was like, to come and raise my children close to the land. And I had my first baby in 1994. So it was just like. And then I was already doing things in 1995, and Gracie was with my sisters and my brothers, you know, like, just like we as we as I came home to my family, we became like a catalyst, like a how do you call it? It’s just like we energized each other and and me having my children, it made it more powerful for me to be able to pursue these things for the community.
Judy 00:24:16 Like it wasn’t just about my children. It was like for the people in grassy, like the community members. And and then it was just like we all helped each other. You know, it’s like, once you start talking and then you, you start energizing each other and you help each other cause a fight like this. It doesn’t take one person. It takes a whole community. Just like when you guys do the farming, it probably be pretty hard to do the farming alone. You need like a whole team to help you, you know, keep the farm going and to harvest and to and to can and jar and share to people like you need a whole community. Right. And that’s the same thing with this activism in Grassy. Like, it’s like a whole community and they’re ready for it at the time.
Sheldomar 00:25:06 Yeah. That’s you know, that’s I mean, first off, yes, there is absolutely no way I’d be running or helping out a farm. If it was just me. that’s that’s not possible for one person.
Sheldomar 00:25:17 And I think that highlights the importance of community. I think yeah, there’s, there’s power in community. Right. Of working together with others on a common goal for the better. Good. yeah. I’m trying not to go off the rails here, but there’s something so human about that and so, so special and so important. Yeah. And I think about these groups that you met along the way that, you know, may have not been a part of the Grassy Narrows community, but more broadly speaking, you know, are are still part of community. yeah. In that way.
Judy 00:25:47 Yeah. And they trained us, you know, by by being who they were. Right. Protecting the land and water and and Milton Bernard. A tooth like he passed on already. But he, he was fighting like, a dam from being built on a glacial waters. There were those coming from the mountains and and he lost, though. But he faced jail time and. But it took a community to go and support him, you know, because he he ended up not not serving that much time in jail for protecting the land and water.
Judy 00:26:23 So again, community is important, you know, like when these issues happen and we need the support from outside to do this work. Like it be just like, you know, like us trying to fight this big industry without people from outside helping us, advocating for us, creating awareness. We we would be like at square one all the time, but with support from outside or like creating awareness all the time, like it creates that compassion from people that that have a a heart that that care about the earth, that care about people.
Sheldomar 00:27:06 Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of said it better myself, I guess, when thinking about solidarity in this way. Have you seen more and more communities? yeah. Like like increase their in solidarity. when thinking about the River run, which I haven’t really asked much about. yeah. Over the years. Like, how has this sort of inter-community solidarity, changed or grown?
Judy 00:27:32 Well, when we first started, the River Run in Toronto was like, a few hundred, and then it built every two years.
Judy 00:27:41 We were doing like, a river run, and we had our demands. And then but also, it’s not just about us, like going to protest there, but it was also creating that, empowerment to our people in Grassy to say, you know, let’s go protest, you know, like that. And then they come there to Toronto and they see all the support and they go back home, like thinking, hey, yeah, we can make changes, you know, by doing this. And so it’s also empowering the people in Grassy to not lose hope. And I think our last Riverrun, we had 8000 people. And that’s huge compared to when we first started. You know, if you look back on the numbers like you’ll see how small it was and then now 8000 people, and then you think of it as a like back to water like waves of knowledge, going back to people’s home tables and saying, did you know about Grassy? You know, and then people start knowing what Grassy Narrows is and where we are and so on.
Judy 00:28:50 So it’s still creating that ripple, you know, like the 8000 people that were there are probably still talking about it. And hopefully we’re going to come there again.
Sheldomar 00:29:01 Oh, I love that. And yeah, maybe 10,000 12,020. You know let’s just.
Judy 00:29:06 Yeah, maybe.
Sheldomar 00:29:07 Let’s keep going.
Judy 00:29:08 Yeah. Well, when you consider how many people in the world I think is like,
Sheldomar 00:29:17 Yeah, closer to eight these days. 8 billion.
Judy 00:29:22 Okay. 8 billion. And then in Canada, 30,000,000,000 million. And then Toronto, like 6 million. So 8000 people is like a drop in the bucket. So let’s let’s have more than 12,000. You know, let’s let’s flood the streets. So like that. Like that’s what keeps me going. It’s like, let’s keep let’s keep talking to people. Let’s keep sharing about Grassy and the injustices that are happening. You know, let’s keep pushing it. That’s how I think.
Sheldomar 00:29:58 And like you said, like the waves, you know, like, just let those ripples and the waves continuing to To touch others and just keep.
Sheldomar 00:30:05 Keep it moving. Keep that movement.
Judy 00:30:08 Yeah. And also like putting it at a more personal level, like, like people in the community, like, say, in Six Nations, which are just south of Toronto. They’re fighting against Nestle because Nestle is trying to use the aquifer to get water and, you know, like destroying their aquifer. I went to one of our friends, in near Niagara, Niagara. And the family was a non-Native family, and they lived in a really historic home. And they said their aquifer was called the Oneida Aquifer. And it was like 60ft down into the Earth for them to get that spring, beautiful spring, spring water. Like, it was just tastes so good. And I was like, I was like, can I drink your water? You know, like because, that was in Oneida and that’s like a hugely populated area. And it’s still amazing what Mother Earth provides for us, you know, to have that good drinking water.
Sheldomar 00:31:19 Absolutely. I think that’s something there, like, even for, for non-Indigenous folks, like you said, like, yeah, making having a connection or a relation to the land and personalizing these issues and realizing that, yeah, we all share this place.
Sheldomar 00:31:32 So how do how do we all care for it in that way and fight for it.
Judy 00:31:36 Yeah. And protect it, protect it.
Sheldomar 00:31:39 Protect it. I realized I jumped right into a question about the River run, what some of our listeners might not be familiar with the event, which I understand is an annual protest that brings together community members and water advocates from grassy down to Toronto to Queen’s Park. But can you tell us more about it?
Judy 00:31:56 Well, it started in 2010. Was our first one Okay. Yeah. And, we had a list of demands, and and then we. 2012 2014 2016, 2019. So each time, it was like, a learning experience because we had to mobilize a whole bunch of people from Grassy and then, you know, making funding and places to stay along the way, and then getting to Toronto and then having places to stay there and then getting them to march and then sending them home. And then so it’s also I think internet has helped a lot because you’re able to go on social medias and, you know, notify people and everybody has a phone now.
Judy 00:32:48 So like they, they, they get the notification there’s a river run and then there’s a protest by Grassy Narrows people. So it’s become more widely known because of the internet and the social media. And so Riverrun is actually, I guess, going back to English tropical nervous system and saying, like, the rivers life, you know, the water is life. So River run just like puts the word into to more personal, like Grassy Narrows, River run, you know, like the English tropical river system. We need the river to be clean and good, to give us life. So that that was why we called it Riverrun. And then, we mimicked the river going through the city. We had like a big blue cloth that people would carry and beautiful banners, you know, that say waters life and support, Grassy Narrows and so on. So it became like, I guess if you like a feel good protest. It wasn’t violent. It was just like a peaceful reminder to people in government that, hey, we’re not forgetting about grassy.
Judy 00:34:13 Grassy still here. You may have poisoned the river, and they’re here to tell everybody you know they’re still poisoned. So that’s kind of like the origins of the river. And and I mean, the river ran. And so as the years progressed with each protest, it’s been like, gotten more and more beautiful, beautiful banners. Isaac Murdock of a very well known artist in southern Ontario, he, he designed some, some images that were really breathtaking. And we still use those images. And so like if you look at the previous River runs, you’ll see kind of like the beautiful banners that we, we’ve carried and how they’ve kind of, how they got enhanced with each River run and yeah, yeah, even t shirts like the design of the t shirts and, you know, like they become more and more beautiful each time. And some have been simple designs, some have been really. The last one was really beautiful with the I don’t know if you could share that somehow someday, but that was a really good image.
Judy 00:35:36 So the River run is like, a mechanism that helps my people a lot to bring the issue to mainstream Canadian society.
Sheldomar 00:35:48 Yeah, that’s that’s so important. I think I’ve seen these images in the past, but I’m sure I mean, considering we’re audio only. yeah, we can find some of those posters and those those arts done by Isaac and, Yeah. Share it. When when we share this with the folks and, you know, mentioned you spoke a bit about bringing these issues to the forefront, especially for mainstream, Canadians or Canada thinking about it. But what are Gracie’s current demands and, yeah, what are some of those things that you folks are raising more awareness to?
Judy 00:36:21 Well, Gracie’s current demand is, compensation for all and in any other community in Canada, if there’s a poisoning that happened, people usually get compensated. And I guess a good example would be walkathon, which is like north of Toronto. And they got e-coli poisoning and they got compensated right away. And that’s what we’re seeking is compensation for all for the community members of Grassy Narrows and, I guess monetary compensation is what to be more specific.
Judy 00:37:01 And before the, the poisoning, the poison that we suffer within our bodies and to for the government to acknowledge that and to say we we want to be compensated for that.
Sheldomar 00:37:14 Yeah. That’s that’s it seems crucial to, to the work that you folks are doing and to, yeah, that activism coming from the River run, I’m thinking, you know, it’s it’s funny, Judy, you mentioned this a little bit earlier in our conversation. But as a young person myself, and I’m doing work in different ways to bring about social change, sometimes it feels like we’re not making headway. You know, sometimes it feels hopeless. And I’m thinking about what you were saying with your elders, in the community who are saying, just let it go. Drop it. But myself and I relate to what you said there. Like, we we need to keep pushing like there’s no. You know, why stop when things are not better? So I’m curious, like, what is helped you found? Like hope, you know.
Sheldomar 00:38:05 Like, how do you how do you sustain hope and, you know, stay grounded in the work that you’ve been doing for 30 plus years, I believe.
Judy 00:38:16 I guess, like, there’s just a few elders that did, you know, say, let it go. But I will acknowledge the elders that said, you know, this is a good thing to do finally. And they’ve passed on now. And I can’t mention their name. It’s like the late Mary Ann Keaton. She she said, don’t give up the late Moses land who always stood beside us, and the late Tom Pearce, who who would travel with us. And, the late Willie Keaton and like. These are all, like, older people that said, don’t give up. And I guess, like, I still hear their words. When, when, When I do feel like giving up. And I do look at my, my nieces and nephews and their children and, and my kids and, you know, my grandchildren.
Judy 00:39:19 And I think, you know, I’m going to go as long as I can and keep trying to inspire them so they they continue to fight, you know, and I’m long gone, just like when these elders are gone now over 20 years. And they they inspired me to keep going. So I would like to be that elder for, for the younger people now. And so that they’ll keep the fight going. And I guess for any of the podcast listeners, one of the things you can Google is, well, not Google is YouTube is the home to me video and the the kids that are in that video. They were some of them were not born when the blockade happened. And as they grew up, they made that song and they got it. They got the message. Like when you listen to the words of the song, it used to make me cry all the time. And just listening to that song. So, you know, if people can take the time and Google, I mean, YouTube that home to me video, Grassy Narrows and you’ll you hear the words of these young people.
Judy 00:40:32 So that’s what I want is for these young people to continue that that fight as long as we can, you know, till we get all the military justice stuff But we need to have peace on our lands and our territories and our water.
Sheldomar 00:40:50 Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, Judy. Yeah, I think that’s an important message to write home. Never give up. Never let it go. Yeah. Everything is resonating here with me. It’s something I’m thinking about also. And I’m not sure if you get asked this often, but is there something that you could tell me about your community that has nothing to do with the mercury crisis?
Judy 00:41:10 Well, I guess people should know that we are a very small community. We have 800 people that live in the community, and we are outnumbered by youth and children, and we are a faster, dying, older population because of the mercury poisoning. And like, I’d like people to know that like, where we are is somehow remote. And the closest town is Kenora.
Judy 00:41:40 So where we live is like a forest that has been logged over since, you know, 1919. So that’s like a long history of, of our forests being devastated by the logging industry. So my, my word to people out there is like, okay, that’s enough. You guys get out now. No more logging, no more mining, no nuclear waste. You know, just get the heck out of here and don’t come back. Let us live. Let us, you know, let the animals come back, you know, let the the clean water come back. Like that’s my my wish and my goal. And I hope the young people will also follow that.
Sheldomar 00:42:30 Oh, I back your wish and your goal. They can get lost, never come back. And I also would love to know that the animals and the the. Yeah. Every everybody else who’s welcome there.
Judy 00:42:42 I’m going to say one. I’m going to say one thing is, where I’m sitting right now, it’s at the blockade site and there’s a lake down below.
Judy 00:42:52 It’s called Slant Lake. And in my language it’s called Where the Road Ends or something like that, my brother said. And then, there’s trumpeters, swans that come there every year now since the logging stopped and trumpeter swans are on a species at risk, in Ontario for a long time. But now they’re coming back, and there’s this couple, couple of swans that come every year. I could hear them. Right now they sound like trumpets. And for them to to thrive, they need quiet peace, place to have their baby. And so we hear them all summer, like, just on the lake here. So to me, that’s like a win. It’s like, okay, the trumpeters are here. It’s in a really quiet place, you know, like. And it’s amazing. So it shows me kind of like the effects of stopping the logging in our area is allowing these animals to come back. And, the other thing is, growing up as a child, the birds used to wake me up.
Judy 00:44:03 You know, they’re so noisy. It’s just like, wake me up. But there’s a time when the logging was going full, full speed. Couldn’t hear the birds anymore. It was quiet. And now, since we’ve stopped the logging since 2002, the birds are coming back and starting to wake me up.
Sheldomar 00:44:23 Which is a good thing. Sounds like.
Judy 00:44:27 Yeah.
Sheldomar 00:44:27 It’s so beautiful, I find it.
Judy 00:44:29 It’s a good.
Sheldomar 00:44:29 Thing. The ironic that the birds need the quiet, but they’re the loud ones also. but respectfully, I can understand that. Yeah. And, you know, changes happening, like you said, you know, probably at a slow pace. These things are happening. And, yeah, animals are a good reminder of that, too. so, you know, we’ve been talking a lot, Judy. And thank you again for sharing everything you’ve had. I’m sure listeners have much appreciated this conversation. I do want to leave this off with one question. And you’ve already touched on some of these actions around, like watching the Home to Me video.
Sheldomar 00:45:08 I believe you called it, but I want to ask, like, how else can folks support Grassy Narrows? Is that through donations, petitions, buying T-shirts and anything that you share will make sure that there’s links attached in the description.
Judy 00:45:22 Yeah. I guess the easiest thing I could say is I got a free grassy net, and in there there’s like a whole bunch of articles, there’s photos of the River run and there’s like science. Science research reports in there. And you know, that’s like a a place where people can donate and they can also order T-shirts. And so it’s all like ongoing because we’re going to prepare for another river run. And, you know, keep your eyes and ears open for the next server run and be.
Sheldomar 00:45:58 There, folks. Keep your eyes and ears open for the next River run, because it’s going to be way over 1000. Next up, I promise. well, thank you so much, Judy. I really appreciate you being here today. We’ve covered a lot of different topics, but it’s been a really important conversation.
Sheldomar 00:46:15 And as I said, I just appreciate you sharing your experiences with us, especially knowing how deeply impact you have been by all of this. and I hope we can see some progress and justice for Grassy Narrows in the in the near future.
Judy 00:46:27 I hope so, and thank you for for this podcast.
Sheldomar 00:46:31 Of course. Yeah. You’re welcome and always welcome if you have more to to chat about. Maybe that spiritual journey I.
Judy 00:46:37 Yeah.
Sheldomar 00:46:38 That’s my jam. Thank you for listening to this episode of dignity and Joy and dignity and Joy is a podcast from Foodshare Toronto, where food justice organization advocating for the right to food and working to challenge the systemic barriers that keep people from accessing the food that they need to thrive. You can learn more about our work on Foodshare net, and if you have any feedback on the podcast, we’d love to hear it. You can send us an email at info at foodshare. Net or on our social media. We’re @ foodshareto on Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram. Sound engineering and editing for dignity and Joy is provided by the talented ears and hands of Mar Tezak.
Sheldomar 00:47:18 The production team of Foodshare is Renée D’Souza and Andrea Thompson. And special thank you to Amanda Cupido. Thanks so much for listening.